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Reckoning with being an immigrant
in General
While I have to agree with a lot of this (I have to live in MENA everyday, terrible) I don't think this is the correct analysis. A lot of it is dependent on the systems of the country receiving them. America, for example, takes MENA immigration much better than Europe does; MENA immigration there is much older and the people who end up in the US are of far higher selection
I also just don't think it's good to hate your race or ethnicity or wtv. Again, ironic both because I bitch about Arabs every single day and because I am a rootless cosmopolitan type.
But, ultimately, I am Arab, you are MENA. These are our people.
Nor do I subscribe to anything hereditary about why we act the way we do. Iraqis used to act far better then than they do now; wealth was and is a great civilising equaliser.
But, ultimately, I am Arab, you are MENA. These are our people.
Nor do I subscribe to anything hereditary about why we act the way we do. Iraqis used to act far better then than they do now; wealth was and is a great civilising equaliser.
I appreciate your spirit (which unfortunately, most of your compatriots lack), but self-hatred or other forms of degrading yourself are pointless. You ultimately didn't choose what ethnicity or nation you were born in, so it's a more reasonable choice to accept being Iraqi, in spite of your country's many flaws.
Speaking of your plan to completely assimilate into European society - from my experience, Europeans will actually ruthlessly mock non-Europeans who adopted European names, since they believe they appropriated European culture and it doesn't fit them. Therefore, in Germany for example, only the Vietnamese adopt German names. Turkish immigrants, even if they marry with Germans, will still give Turkish names to their children for this reason.
Unlike the United States, which is a country built on immigration and thus where locals accept you as their own if you sufficiently integrate into American society, European countries are fixed national/identitarian states. Germans will never accept you as German no matter how much you assimilate, because their definition of German-ness is inherently ancestry-based. The very fact that Iraqis and other third worlders are inundating Europe is an abomination of our modern age.
If I were you, I'd consider moving to the United States. Nativism is becoming increasingly accepted in Europe, so even if you were "one of the good ones", you'd still be subject to discrimination. In spite of the current political milieu in the US, no one would actually care that you're originally from Iraq if you become sufficiently American in character and behavior. If that's not an option, then integrate without losing your Iraqi identity - i.e. don't try too hard to become German/Danish/French/etc. They will notice and they usually do NOT like it.
Speaking of your plan to completely assimilate into European society - from my experience, Europeans will actually ruthlessly mock non-Europeans who adopted European names, since they believe they appropriated European culture and it doesn't fit them. Therefore, in Germany for example, only the Vietnamese adopt German names. Turkish immigrants, even if they marry with Germans, will still give Turkish names to their children for this reason.
Unlike the United States, which is a country built on immigration and thus where locals accept you as their own if you sufficiently integrate into American society, European countries are fixed national/identitarian states. Germans will never accept you as German no matter how much you assimilate, because their definition of German-ness is inherently ancestry-based. The very fact that Iraqis and other third worlders are inundating Europe is an abomination of our modern age.
If I were you, I'd consider moving to the United States. Nativism is becoming increasingly accepted in Europe, so even if you were "one of the good ones", you'd still be subject to discrimination. In spite of the current political milieu in the US, no one would actually care that you're originally from Iraq if you become sufficiently American in character and behavior. If that's not an option, then integrate without losing your Iraqi identity - i.e. don't try too hard to become German/Danish/French/etc. They will notice and they usually do NOT like it.
>>4
>Speaking of your plan to completely assimilate into European society - from my experience, Europeans will actually ruthlessly mock non-Europeans who adopted European names, since they believe they appropriated European culture and it doesn't fit them.
I am from North-Eastern Europe and have not observed "ruthless mockery" here. Culturally assimilated racially alien foreigners are rather viewed in a pet-having-learnt-a-trick-like manner, a neat curiosity, but I have not seen any explicit mocking-rejection, rather an implicit one unconsciously expressed in the way people (especially liberals) talk about it: hostility, though, yes, as is rising through all of Europe.
>Speaking of your plan to completely assimilate into European society - from my experience, Europeans will actually ruthlessly mock non-Europeans who adopted European names, since they believe they appropriated European culture and it doesn't fit them.
I am from North-Eastern Europe and have not observed "ruthless mockery" here. Culturally assimilated racially alien foreigners are rather viewed in a pet-having-learnt-a-trick-like manner, a neat curiosity, but I have not seen any explicit mocking-rejection, rather an implicit one unconsciously expressed in the way people (especially liberals) talk about it: hostility, though, yes, as is rising through all of Europe.
>>5
What I've described is true for Germany. Maybe it's different for the Baltics and Finland. Germans will ruthlessly mock Arabs or Turks who adopt German names for either themselves or their children as essentially LARPing. I think anti-immigration hostility will eventually result in most European countries adopting the current Danish immigration model (only temporary residence permits, immigrant children forcibly assimilated by the state, family reunions forbidden for the first 5 years) - already the UK's Labor government openly said they wanted to adopt the Danish model. We will probably see large-scale deportations of asylums seekers either back to countries of their origin (Syria) or to third countries for processing (Libya, Rwanda). As for immigrants with a citizenship, there will probably be significant governmental and societal pressure to leave. Something akin to Japan paying Dekasegis to go back to Brazil. In the end I feel the current period of mass migration to Europe will be more of an oddity of a rapidly changing time, like how Idaho used to be 30% Chinese in the late 19th century.
What I've described is true for Germany. Maybe it's different for the Baltics and Finland. Germans will ruthlessly mock Arabs or Turks who adopt German names for either themselves or their children as essentially LARPing. I think anti-immigration hostility will eventually result in most European countries adopting the current Danish immigration model (only temporary residence permits, immigrant children forcibly assimilated by the state, family reunions forbidden for the first 5 years) - already the UK's Labor government openly said they wanted to adopt the Danish model. We will probably see large-scale deportations of asylums seekers either back to countries of their origin (Syria) or to third countries for processing (Libya, Rwanda). As for immigrants with a citizenship, there will probably be significant governmental and societal pressure to leave. Something akin to Japan paying Dekasegis to go back to Brazil. In the end I feel the current period of mass migration to Europe will be more of an oddity of a rapidly changing time, like how Idaho used to be 30% Chinese in the late 19th century.
Both of my parents were former immigrants/expatriates in Europe, in Germany and in Wales. They returned to the ME after staying for around a decade there in the 90s. Given they're both highly educated (my dad worked in Wales as a biomedical researcher in addiction medicine, mother specialized in dermatology in Germany), they did find a good bit of culture shock seeing other Arabs and Turks there that did often come from worse-off backgrounds. But in the end every one of them was an individual, and they differed in virtue.
In truth, neither self-hatred nor wanton violence are our ways; the real question isn't if you're a refugee or diaspora, it's not about assimilation, it's if you have virtue. Some of the folks among you lack it. Some of the folks among you have it. If you really want the cure, the first step is to stop thinking of yourself in terms of the fact you're diaspora, to stop de-individualizing yourself. My parents remained religiously dedicated but also maintained a sense of duty in living in others' land and doing as the Romans do. It's not about pure assimilation nor about being violently and vehemently stereotypical, it's about the fact that your own culture is you, and whatever it is you do is your culture.
In truth, neither self-hatred nor wanton violence are our ways; the real question isn't if you're a refugee or diaspora, it's not about assimilation, it's if you have virtue. Some of the folks among you lack it. Some of the folks among you have it. If you really want the cure, the first step is to stop thinking of yourself in terms of the fact you're diaspora, to stop de-individualizing yourself. My parents remained religiously dedicated but also maintained a sense of duty in living in others' land and doing as the Romans do. It's not about pure assimilation nor about being violently and vehemently stereotypical, it's about the fact that your own culture is you, and whatever it is you do is your culture.
In Britain there is an interesting dichotomy that suggests that there is a "correct" way to handle 3rd world immigration. Those Muslim-origin immigrants who came in the middle twentieth century during the collapse of the empire are overall very industrious and generous, often running humble businesses like general shops and are also highly involved in charity work. This stands in contrast to the "Boriswave" of immigration that brought over a much younger generation from the same country, who are generally as OP has described, in addition the famous grooming gangs case involving police negligence with which I'm sure all posters will be aware. I don't know enough about the countries of origin to say precisely why, but it is interesting to note that this appears to be an issue of the younger generation; ironically it is quite the opposite of the situation with native Britain wherein the boomer generation are generally lazy and cruel and the younger generation far more (although of course I'm biased by being a member of which) productive and moral.
>>9
Yeah, I paid 35k euros in income taxes last year. Received a little health care, but paid a ton in VAT. If you plotted me on the graph from the economist I attached, I would be in the word "finances".
Just saw the Ceuta thing. They look like zombies from a movie. The term bioweapon comes to mind. Depressing.
Yeah, I paid 35k euros in income taxes last year. Received a little health care, but paid a ton in VAT. If you plotted me on the graph from the economist I attached, I would be in the word "finances".
Just saw the Ceuta thing. They look like zombies from a movie. The term bioweapon comes to mind. Depressing.
Last edited 2026/07/31(Fri) 12:33:28
>>9
Even if more than 50% of them are, they're still less retarded and lazy than the boomer generation. I've very rarely met anyone in that particular 10-15 year span who hasn't been overall rude, cruel, unnecessarily mean and greatly entitled. The people older than boomers, of which there are few left now, tend to not be, I suppose because they really did live through WW2 rather than boomers who pretend they did
Even if more than 50% of them are, they're still less retarded and lazy than the boomer generation. I've very rarely met anyone in that particular 10-15 year span who hasn't been overall rude, cruel, unnecessarily mean and greatly entitled. The people older than boomers, of which there are few left now, tend to not be, I suppose because they really did live through WW2 rather than boomers who pretend they did
>>3 you should see the ashura processions by Iraqis in USA and Europe. Maybe go talk to some of the attendees. You will realize that despite the wealth and opportunities surrounding them, they're as rude, backwards and dumb as the ashura attendees who grew up in poverty in Iraq.
Similarly at my job a 30+ year old Iraqi guy was casually telling a story about how he paid his wife's parents in cash when she was 19 and he was 29 to marry her. He grew up in Europe.
A lot of young Iraqi boys and men get swallowed up into YooKay Roadmen Culture and become serial criminals despite having a ton of opportunities. Just look at Sweden and their criminal gangs that are led by Rawa Majid, Ali Shehab Ahmed and Ismail Abdo.
Similarly at my job a 30+ year old Iraqi guy was casually telling a story about how he paid his wife's parents in cash when she was 19 and he was 29 to marry her. He grew up in Europe.
A lot of young Iraqi boys and men get swallowed up into YooKay Roadmen Culture and become serial criminals despite having a ton of opportunities. Just look at Sweden and their criminal gangs that are led by Rawa Majid, Ali Shehab Ahmed and Ismail Abdo.
Last edited 2026/07/31(Fri) 12:50:34
>>10
I suppose you're of middling success, quite amusing.
>>11
Do you live in/grow up in London? If you did, then I'm somewhat surprised, as my experience has been almost the opposite. I may be willing to concede that we are of different social classes. If you did not, then whatever you say is of no relevance to my world model (London subsidizes the rest of the country and has done for decades) (the M25 separates London from the third world).
I suppose you're of middling success, quite amusing.
>>11
Do you live in/grow up in London? If you did, then I'm somewhat surprised, as my experience has been almost the opposite. I may be willing to concede that we are of different social classes. If you did not, then whatever you say is of no relevance to my world model (London subsidizes the rest of the country and has done for decades) (the M25 separates London from the third world).
>>13 Croydon and Tower Hamlets is definitely first world unlike the Cotswolds which lacks Bengali and Pakistani first worlders. Great world model.
>>14
you might be able to infer my ethnicity from my name.
you might be able to infer my ethnicity from my name.
>>15 can infer a lot from that indeed
>>10 would you consider yourself a racial bioweapon?
>>17 no
>>10 We should actually open a Ceuta thread because the usual suspects are failing to see the point of the issue
>>13 London should be destroyed I think. I assume you work in f*nance or real estate of some kind.
>>13
That world model seems more like unnecessarily rhetorical hyperbole tbh. While it is true that London (as well as I believe Manchester, Edinburgh and Glasgow) is one of the few places in Britain that is a net positive for the economy, referring to anything outside of it as "third world" is silly, and quite ironic as BabylonsDiaspora pointed out that there are many areas of London populated entirely by third worlders like Tower Hamlets
That world model seems more like unnecessarily rhetorical hyperbole tbh. While it is true that London (as well as I believe Manchester, Edinburgh and Glasgow) is one of the few places in Britain that is a net positive for the economy, referring to anything outside of it as "third world" is silly, and quite ironic as BabylonsDiaspora pointed out that there are many areas of London populated entirely by third worlders like Tower Hamlets
>>20
ML, not finance, and you're probably a third-worldist.
>>21
"Manchester, Edinburgh and Glasgow" -- don't make me laugh. The UK comprises of London, and the cities who can best leech off of London. The two regions in this country that run a surplus are London, and the South East (which benefits by way of proximity to London). We hand ~£50bn a year to Westminster for the rest of you peasants to live off of. If you bothered to investigate the data this would become apparent.
Also, when confronted with the grandeur of Londinium, to just point towards some tiny enclave instead of the other 31 boroughs, instead of the other 8.8/9.1 million people, is retarded. No one inside London actually gives a shit about Tower Hamlets, but the rabble afar do love obsessing over it
ML, not finance, and you're probably a third-worldist.
>>21
"Manchester, Edinburgh and Glasgow" -- don't make me laugh. The UK comprises of London, and the cities who can best leech off of London. The two regions in this country that run a surplus are London, and the South East (which benefits by way of proximity to London). We hand ~£50bn a year to Westminster for the rest of you peasants to live off of. If you bothered to investigate the data this would become apparent.
Also, when confronted with the grandeur of Londinium, to just point towards some tiny enclave instead of the other 31 boroughs, instead of the other 8.8/9.1 million people, is retarded. No one inside London actually gives a shit about Tower Hamlets, but the rabble afar do love obsessing over it
Last edited 2026/07/31(Fri) 19:13:31
>>23 There's no point continuing if you're going to be so unnecessarily rude to me.
>>24
Your claim of Manchester, Edinburgh and Glasgow being net positives for the economy is in fact ruder than anything I've said.
Your claim of Manchester, Edinburgh and Glasgow being net positives for the economy is in fact ruder than anything I've said.
Locked. I'm not going to let this forum degenerate into stupid arguments. Any continuations of this will result in a ban, thank you.
To more precisely describe why, instead of just repeating the old habit of an arbitrary admin:
The thread was already in a bad place from post 1 with OP's self loathing; that type of discussion makes me sick, not the fact that the viewpoint was of a right wing one. But it was tolerable until people then began to devolve from arguments about things to arguments about the people of the forum. This violates the Treatise.
That's all.
The thread was already in a bad place from post 1 with OP's self loathing; that type of discussion makes me sick, not the fact that the viewpoint was of a right wing one. But it was tolerable until people then began to devolve from arguments about things to arguments about the people of the forum. This violates the Treatise.
That's all.
This thread is locked.